The Reluctant Tank Destroyer

Black Sheep? The WZ-111G FT

By:

IrmaBecx

So starting this, I have maybe 130 game until I get to tier IX, and someone just asked me whether it’s good or not.

My straight answer is I think it is, but I’m not really looking forward to finding out.

Why? I mean, that’s still a 111 chassis; my favourite Chinese Heavy tank. What’s wrong with it?

Here’s the deal. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it at all, I just think it looks too much like a tier IX ISU; the ISU being the reason I don’t own the “Hillbilly Tenk” Object 268, even though I really like it.

I just think ISU’s are too campy, and I much prefer living with two degrees of gun depression at 50 km/h.

So I have to ask myself: what I am doing gringing a TD line that by the looks of it ends in two gigant Chinese ISU ripoffs?

The tier X you can make the case it’s a different sort of tank, at least a little, but not even I can claim the WZ-111G FT is anything other than a tier IX ISU-152; it even has the sun visor over the gun. I can say it’s a WZ-111 with the casemate lifted off the WZ-113G FT all I want; it’s not going to change anything.

And so that’s my problem. I’m just not sure I’m going to enjoy grinding almost half a million XP in the thing.

There is also the fact tier IX Tank Destroyers are some of the most powerful vehicles in the game, not to mention some of my most beloved tanks. The Foch and the SU-122-54 “Barracuda” especially. Neither of them give a damn about tier X matchmaking; it’s just more damage. My Foch eats Russian Bias for breakfast. Even Bias-7.

The WZ-111G FT doesn’t do fifty, it doesn’t have 20 horsepower per ton, and it doesn’t have monstrous DPM. What do you get in return?

Well, you get a 200 mm, angled front plate. That’s pretty good. And you get an upgraded 152 mm ML-20, meaning 640 alpha. It’s a pretty good upgrade too; two hundred and ninety mm of penetration. That’s better than the BL-10.

Not by much. But still better.

And that’s pretty much it. You don’t have great damage output – although keep in mind we are comparing to some of the absolute highest DPM tanks in the game here; you don’t have great mobility, you don’t have superb gun handling; it’s all pretty average.

Add to this the thing is as big as a barn, and it doesn’t have super strong side armour.

So yeah; that’s the bad news, in a nut shell.

I still think the WZ-111G FT is going to be a good tank. I’ll even bet after grinding almost half a million XP in mine, I’ll have a pretty good idea of how to drive it. In fact, I think I’ll need to do a few hundred games in the tier IX before I’ll be able to drive the tier X properly.

That’s my plan, anyway. And I am getting the WZ-113G FT. Because it looks so silly and endearing.

I dropped some Premium time yesterday and just got down to it. Once you get comfortable with the tier VIII, it can do some real heavy lifting; I had quite a few top damage losses, some upwards of 4-5000 damage.

And you inherit the same 130 mm main armament when you unlock the tier IX, as well as both engines. The only things you need to grind out are the tracks and the 152 mm top gun, although we are talking almost 100.000 XP to get there.

Me, I think life’s too short. I pay to train the crew on tier IX and X tanks, and after maybe a dozen games, I just wasn’t feeling the 130 mm anymore.

It’s not that it doesn’t work. I just think the tank is balanced around the bigger gun. I had the same feeling going from the tier IX Foch to the tier X Foch (155); the big gun simply fits the tank better in it’s tier. So I spent some of the gold I’ve been saving up to get the 152 mm early.

Otherwise, the new tank feels familiar after 175 games in the WZ-111-1G FT. It’s basically the same chassis with a different casemate, and with 200 mm of frontal armour, you can actually get a fair amount of bounces. Not to mention the huge gun mantlet, which has between 5 and 700 mm of effective, spaced armour. Note also it’s offset to your right, so you’ll want to kee your cover on your left if you can help it to minimise exposure.

But as soon as you angle past six degrees, you’ll be flattening out the slanted sides of the casemate, which are only 80 mm, and pretty much everyone you’ll meet can go straight through. Same thing with the lower glacis; it’s 120 mm and it won’t give you more than 175 mm of effective armour no matter what you do.

Mobility is practically the same as the tier VIII; you are missing a bit of specific power since the tank is heavier, but otherwise they move about the same, meaning again it’s pretty fast for such a slow tank. It doesn’t brawl terribly well, but I have come out on top a few times.

I’d love to say the 152 mm weapon is magnificent, but that is an old artillery piece they hung in there, and it struggles with both accuracy and shell speed; a classic Russian style high caliber gun. Still, landing those 640 alpha hits is of course satisfying, and if you manage to get a penetrating HE hit; which isn’t all that hard with 90 mm of penetration, you can hit them for almost 1000.

It’s early days yet, and I am still finding my legs with the new tank. You may recall I never drove the SU/ISU-152 or the Object 704, and I’m sure someone who did will find theirs much quicker.

The WZ-111G FT is not a Foch. It’s not a turretless Medium. And it’s not really a turretless Heavy tank either like I was hoping; it doesn’t quite have the armour, and with a 15 second reload, you don’t really want to fight people up close. One miss or bounce and you are combat ineffective for half a minute.

You would think it’s impossible to get a bounce with almost 300 mm of standard penetration, but you’ll be surprised. I know I was.

So what’s the final word?

Well, there’s nothing wrong with the tank. However, if you are in the market for a tier IX Tank Destroyer, again there’s no special reason to choose the Chinese option; there are several tanks out there you might very well consider first.

On it’s own terms, you have everything you need. A massive 152 mm weapon, a solid 200 mm front plate, and enough speed to move around a bit and get into cover. That’s by no means groundbreaking stuff.

But it does work. As long as you keep your enemies in front, use a bit of gun depression to max out your armour profile, work from cover, and hide your lower plate, you’ll do fine.

Once I got the tier VIII upgraded, it wasn’t long before I got into the playstyle; wrestling the awkward hull around to keep the gun in the game, and I am hoping the same thing will happen with the tier IX.

I’ll be honest and say I wish it had either a little more mobility, or a little more DPM, but that’s nothing to do with the tank. It’s because I still want it to do things it was never designed to do.

So yeah, I’m not a hundred percent sold on the WZ-111G FT. Not because there’s anything at all wrong with it, but because I’m still not sure it’s the right tank for me.

Will it be the right tank for you?

I don’t see why not. It’s kind of a long grind if you don’t spend some resources on it, and these tanks are pretty expensive to drive, especially if you miss a few shots. Still; the worst thing I can think to say about it is that it’s not very original as a concept, and perhaps not the most wildly exciting drive in the game.

Once again, that’s not a glowing endorsement, and I don’t mean it to be. I think there are better Tank Destroyers at tier IX. At least, there are more dynamic Tank Destroyers at tier IX. But if you enjoy Chinese tanks on the whole, and all you want is a big gun and a bit of frontal armour, then the WZ-111G FT is precisely that.

Nothing more, and nothing less.

A small point: I’ve been driving the WZ-111G FT with stage I equipment only; rammer, improved modules, and improved optics, so I have a few more degrees of traverse, 5% more bounces, stronger tracks, and better gun handling to look forward to.

Right now, in fact. I spent my last hard earned million on most of that last night, now running stage II equipment plus Vstabs.

The WZ performs well enough without it, but the gun handling really can use all the help it can get. With 640 alpha, you only have to hit like three shots, or land two clean HE hits to do almost 2000 damage.

Looking forward to see how it performs now, but I really should spend some time grinding the, well, eight million or so I need to pay for the tier X once I get there. Also like I said the ammunition isn’t exactly cheap, nor are the repairs.

I don’t think I’ve knowingly fired a HEAT shell in the 111G FT yet, but if you need to punch through the front of a pesky IS-7 turret, or a Maus front plate or something, that’s going to cost you almost seven thousand credits. You can of course save yourself a whole lot of expenses by not getting hit and placing your shots properly. And with a 15 second reload, you may not really get a lot of use out of adrenaline.

So maybe I’m nitpicking here. I know for a fact I’m wanting the WZ-111G FT to be something it just isn’t, or at least isn’t quite.

And that’s the wrong way to approach a new tank. What you want to do is approach it on it’s own terms; try to find out what it’s all about, and then you learn to play to it’s strengths.

That’s not what I’m doing. I am still driving it like a Medium tank that can’t do Medium tank jobs.

Really, all you need to do is learn to place your shots properly, and when you can rely on the armour and when you can’t. Oh, and of course hide the lower plate. That’s not rocket science, and I don’t believe any of my colleagues have the slightest problem adapting to the playstyle.

In terms of variety, the WZ is the right tank for my collection. It’s a medium paced Tank Destroyer with a 152 mm main armament and a bit of frontal armour to cover my worst mistakes. It could be teaching me new things instead of being a source of frustration.

But it’s very clear a lot of that frustration isn’t with what the tank does, but rather what the tank is. I just can’t get over the whole ISU camper thing.

So the philosophical thing to do is just say “fXck it” and accept things for what they are. Get over myself, as it were. I mean, I’m not getting rid of it. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s all in my head.

The final word, then, is if you’re not a pretentious tank philosopher like me, you’ll have no trouble at all with the WZ-111G FT. It’s a powerful tank, and it doesn’t have any bad points that aren’t immediately obvious and can be worked around.

IrmaBecx says who knows; maybe there is a little bit of ISU camper in all of us?

At The Crossroads: WZ-111-1G FT

Chinese TD Grind: WZ-111-1G FT

By:

IrmaBecx

So I have arrived at the mid point of the new Chinese TD line, represented by the mighty WZ-111-1G FT.

Well. It certainly looks mighty. Imposing, even.

You may not think so, and I will admit my view is a bit skewed on account of the WZ-111 being my favourite tier VIII Heavy tank. The FT variant looks just like it, only with a square box on top instead of a turret, and of course that huge 130 mm main armament. It literally looks like they took the actual, existing WZ-111 prototype, which has a steel box instead of a turret for testing, and poked a naval gun through the front of it.

But no matter your personal opinion regarding Soviet era Brutalist aesthetics, the 111-1G FT is a well put together vehicle, and it has already found a few proponents. I figure, once I grind it up to full spec, I’ll be joining those people.

In a way, I already have. I drove a few handfuls of games on my press account, and fully loaded, the thing can be a blast to drive; even though it will only do 35 km/h and turns like a Chinese Heavy tank.

But that’s one thing. I drive plenty of loaner tanks on there I would never even consider grinding for my own account, some of them quite regularly.

In this case, however, it’s a no-brainer. The thing is basically my two favourite Heavy tanks in the game melted into one minus a turret. You get the pike nose. The big, burly 130 mm. Even a bit of spaced armour along the side. What’s not to like?

For me, I mean?

So yeah, it’s slow; but it’s not that slow, and it’s all perfectly within reason considering the overall strength of the tank.If you work it properly, for the first time you will have armour you can actually angle up to get some calculated bounces.

Sometimes.

If you read my preview, you’ll know you won’t see a lot more than 200-250 mm of effective armour frontally, except when backing into cover around a corner. It really does turn like a Chinese Heavy; meaning not very well, but in this case you don’t have a turret to help point the gun in the right direction.

So yeah. It’s big, it’s unwieldy, and it’s not really as well armoured as you would think. But the weaponry, as always, is excellent. I was sure the stock gun was going to be a tired old D-25, but it’s actually a Medium tank gun, again off the WZ-120. Being a bit of a gold noob, however, I dropped around 90.000 free XP to get the engine and top gun early.

Grinding casemate TDs is frustrating. But I have like 300 crew XP boosters, so I will at least get a little help doing it; I don’t feel like spending gold on a tier VIII crew.

After maybe 20 games, it’s hard to see the actual vehicle for what it is behind all the frustration it causes. Being a support vehicle means you are reliant on your team to help you out with things like spotting and fending off raiding Light and Medium tanks, especially while you are doing the grind.

And I think perhaps tier VIII is where people are going to start balking, because even fully maxed out, this tank has a different style from the previous two; it’s very recognisably a Heavy tank, only without a turret.

That may of course not be very novel. If you’ve done a few TD grinds already, I’m sure you will have driven something similar, and my friends and colleagues say they have no problems adapting to the playstyle.

Chinese Heavy tanks, though, aren’t always as heavily armoured as you may think, and since you have this awkward box to deal with, it’s not easy to find positions to work from other than a big rock or a house with a tree or a bush beside it.

I only drove one Chinese tank that is a complete monster, and that’s the Premium WZ-120-1G FT. These days, that’s not a surprise to anyone; Premium tanks outperforming tech tree tanks. And I don’t think there’s any question it will outperform the WZ-111-1G FT, but it’s also a different style of tank, a true turretless Medium that can blitz through flanks, brawl other tanks, and shove it’s front plate in people’s faces and burn them down.

The 111-1G FT one is not that. Even fully upgraded with your favourite combat loadout, it just doesn’t have the mobility and armour to do the things the Premium tank can do, and if you expect it to, you are going to be disappointed.

20 more games, and I’m almost done getting the crew in shape; less than 10% left to grind. I also managed two cheeky Masteries, very likely because not a lot of people are driving the tank yet, although I do see another one almost every game I play.

And just like the previous two, I’m in no real hurry to finish the grind. Just as well since I have about 140.000 XP to go.

But as I said, tier VIII is a sort of turning point, going from small and sneaky, highly mobile tanks with Medium tank guns, to slow and lumbering beasts with proper Tank Destroyer weaponry.

I’m not so sure I’m into that. I mean, there’s a reason I never drove the SU and ISU-152.

But I’m also not doing too badly in the WZ-111-1G FT. And I know the reason I’m not having much luck in the tier X WZ-113G FT on the press account, is I just don’t know how to drive a top tier TD that doesn’t do 50 km/h, properly.

Grinding it out is going to teach me that, and it starts right here at tier VIII. If you try to bully people, you will get smashed. If you don’t check your angles, you will get caught in crossfire. And you don’t have the mobility to get yourself out of sticky situations, you will have to look to your team for support and protection. The way to be successful in this tank is supporting your teammates, not trying to carry the whole game by yourself.

So what’s the final word? Should you grind the new Chinese TDs?

I would say, the first three tanks; yes. Absolutely. They don’t look like much, but they are quite powerful machines, and basically all they need is a little careful positional play and resetting the camo to be successful.

Tier VIII is the turning point. The line goes from highly mobile with excellent camo to slow and lumbering with huge guns, and I think if you like the WZ-111-1G FT better than the first two tanks in line, you’re all set to continue up all the way to tier X. If you think it’s too slow and boring, then you might want to give the rest of the line a miss.

I wrote before, looking at the tier X offering, there are at least three tanks you should consider first. The Object 263 “Yolo Wagon”, the AMX 50 Foch (155), and the Object 268 “Hillbilly Tenk”. The thing is, if you have all those, then you don’t actually need the tier X Chinese TD.

Me, I’m going to get there. Eventually. But I’m in no actual hurry to continue the grind, becuase I’m enjoying learning new things in the WZ-111-1G FT. You may already know these things I am learning. If you’ve driven a few of the French, German and Russian TDs already, you will know what this line is all about. I am basically remedying my lack of ISU experience over here.

But if you like the simple balanced nature of other Chinese tanks, then I am sure you will find one or two favourites among the Tank Destroyers as well. They take a little getting used to, and they are support vehicles, not “None-Shall-Pass” powerhouses, or roving, raiding flankers.

Especially not this one. It’s just a 130 mm WZ-111 without a turret.

I feel like I am waffling a bit here.

It’s probably because I don’t have a lot to say about the actual drive; how to make the thing work.

And I am having a few reservations.

The WZ-111-1G FT is a great drive once you get it all upgraded, but I’m not so sure it’s actually what I want. And I am even less sure about the tier IX and X. I tell myself I need to go through the entire grind before I learn how to play these tanks properly, but as a Medium driver at heart, I am diverging from my core playstyle, and a lot of the time I get myself knocked out early trying to make these tanks do things they simply weren’t designed to do.

My stated reason for grinding all the way to tier X is pure pig-headedness; I want to grind it because it’s so expensive, and because it looks so endearingly silly. That’s not super rational.

But I have also been feeling like I’m stagnating as a player, and maybe driving something different will be the cure?

“Different” may also be an overstatement. There’s really nothing new about these tanks, they are all made up from parts of existing vehicles.

Sometimes, those parts turn out to be more than the sum of themselves, and although I’m not feeling that about the 111-1G FT quite yet, this is the tank I was looking forward to; the one I wanted to fall for, and it’s not even fully upgraded yet.

IrmeBecx says I do love a 130 mm main armament.

Perhaps that’s enough for now?

Tinfoil Medium TD? The T-34-2G FT

Chinese TD Grind: T-34-2G FT

By:

IrmaBecx

So I finished the WZ grind, and bought myself a brand new T-34-2G FT. Played two games with 75% crew and stage 1 equipment, so I can’t say very much about it yet, but I can say I am looking forward to it.

Why? Is it not just a tier VII SU-100?

Well, maybe. But it reminds me a lot more of another Russian Tank Destroyer, actually: The fabulous “Baby Barracuda” SU-100M1, which is both one of my most memorable grinds to date, and one of my absolute favourite tanks.

This, then, is a T-34-2 chassis with either a Medium tank 100 mm, or a WZ Heavy tank 122 mm on it. Increduously, it’s even smaller than the WZ-131G FT, but the 131 is a shortened, lightened T-54/Type 59 chassis, and the T-34-2 is basically just a glorified T-34-85.

With the noob crew, the thing doesn’t turn so well, and the huge reticule bounces all over the place as you drive around, but the thing will still do 50. Especially since I dropped some free XP on unlocking the engine and tracks…

But yeah, It got me excited. As soon as my crew gets their act together, and I drop like three quarters of a million worth of equipment on it, it’s going to sharpen up noticeably, and I’m hoping it will be kind of like driving the SU-122-54 at tier VII once that’s all done.

I can feel it tugging at the reins.

Sadly, when you first roll out, it’s going to be like driving a stock Medium tank with a jammed turret. Again it’s fast once it gets going; you’ll be used to that from Chinese tanks by now.

The stock gun is actually not the top gun off the WZ-131G FT. It’s a 60-100T; that’s the second gun off the WZ-120, and it is a step up from the tier VI. Then you get a 122, and yeah; it’s a Chinese D-25. It’s pretty much a WZ-111 gun without the APCR standard, and your shell speed will take a hit because of that.

Still, it also has about 800 more DPM than a Heavy tank…

A small prediction here. Almost all tanks are balanced around their top modules, and tier VII is where running something other than the top gun starts becoming iffy. I think the 100 mm will prove comfortable enough for grinding, but I also think the 122 mm will be outright better. I don’t expect the stock gun to be as viable.

But yeah… this is going to be a turretless Medium.

Turretless Mediums aren’t a huge segment, and it’s pretty much all strong performers already. The main competition are going to be “Stalin’s Hammer”; the old SU-122-44, and the aforementioned “Baby Barracuda”.

The SU-100M1 I would say is better, plain and simple. But it’s also super awkward with only 2 degrees of gun depression, and a lot of players just can’t get their head around it.

The SU-122-44 has been powercreeped a bit; having a 175-pen 122 mm at tier VII isn’t all that anymore. The upgraded Chinese D-25T is noticeably sharper almost all around.

But the main difference is these other two tanks have actual, useable armour. Even using your class-leading five degrees of gun depression, you’re not going to get more than 160 mm of effective armour out of that 70 mm front plate, and you can of couse try side scraping, just remember the upper sides will be overmatched by a 152 mm, and the lower sides by a 100 mm.

So the question is, will the T-34-2G FT be up to the task?

About 50 games in, I’m not doing too badly, but I am still struggling with the thing.

I only just got the crew all trained, and I got all the equipment on it, but it’s like I still haven’t found my balance yet. The weapon still bounces all over the place, and I often have trouble keeping on target. Add to this the slow-motion shell speed, and you will find the gun is quite derpy.

Normally, that would mean get a little closer, but that’s not really a good idea in this tank. It does bounce shots, but not nearly as much as you would like, and I find myself doing bad trades all the time. Tank Destroyers don’t have a lot of hitpoints to begin with, and you really don’t want to get into straight up hitpoint trading.

The problem is, you don’t have enough frontal armour. If you position to take a shot and you are spotted, you will take a hit. And if you are the only one spotted, you are likely to take several.

You have the mobility to take on Medium and Light tanks up close; I’ve had some proper brawls and came out on top. But if you try to storm the flank early, you’ll just end up getting decimated, and if you don’t get knocked out straight away, you will most likely have taken heavy damage.

I tried staying in place a few times, which does work, but it’s no fun, and you are basically trusting your team to do the actual work as far as spotting and controlling the map. If they don’t, you’ll just be stuck at the back.

But this is a support vehicle. In the best of all worlds, you will be moving around with your team, and taking sneaky shots at enemies while they are kept busy by your teammates.

So yeah, that’s about as far as I got.

Even though it’s been a bit of a struggle, I do like the little T-34-2. It reminds me of the Medium version, and of tanks I enjoy, like the SU-122-54 and WZ-120 1G FT.

But it also has a different flavour they do. If the Premium monster is a turretless T-54, this one is more like a turretless STA-1.

It’s a fun drive. It’s just I haven’t really figured out how to play it properly yet, and maybe that’s not so strange. It’s been years and years since I drove the Jagdpanzers and the SU-100, and I never drove those big campy TDs at all.

It just feels counter intuitive to me to stay at the back in a tank that does 50 km/h.

But with no frontal armour and an eight second plus reload, you’re not exactly going to bully anyone except stock tier VI:es, and the aimtime isn’t exactly razor sharp either, meaning you pretty much want to be stationary when you take the shot. That means playing support, and once you get comfortable with the controls, the T-34-2G FT turns out to be a highly effective support tank.

So where does this all leave us?

I’m not sure.

I have been talking to people about the new TD line, and those discussions haven’t been like I imagined they would be.

People seem to like them. I hadn’t been expecting that.

I wan’t to say I like them too only I couldn’t tell you why, but that’s just not true. The lower tier offerings are likeable tanks, simple as that.

Here’s a tentative recommendation:

If you are looking for a bit of middle tier fun, and you are already messing around with Chinese tanks, then I would say you have absolutely nothing to lose by giving the Tank Destroyers a go. Tiers VI and VII are highly mobile tanks with excellent firepower and camouflage, leading up to the tier VIII, which trades a bit of agility for a bit of armour and a long barrel 130 mm. Straightforward stuff.

After that, I’m sure you’ll be able to make up your own mind about the last two tanks in the line, and if you’re not feeling it, just let it go and grind something else.

As I’ve said before, if you think these tanks look boring, then you can safely give them a pass, because there’s really nothing there beneath the surface. What you see is pretty much all you get.

Personally though, I am all over the T-34-2G FT. I had a few of good games in it already, and just like the big Barracuda or the SU-100M1, it seems the more you push towards the edge of mindless yolo, the more stuff you’ll get away with.

The armour just isn’t to be relied on; you’ll need to use your hitpoints instead, but that really is the only issue. And if you’ve driven a low riding Jagdpanzer style TD before, it’s not all that difficult to drive. And it’s fun. Proper fun.

IrmaBecx says the T-34-2G FT may not look like much, but if you give it a chance, it may very well end up winning you over.

WZ-131G FT – Light Tank Destroyer?

Chinese TD Grind: WZ-131G FT

By:

IrmaBecx

So I stayed up last night so I could drive the new tanks first thing, and I am almost halfway to the tier VII now.

The little WZ Tank Destroyer is fun to drive; at least once you got it fully upgraded, but it’s not the strongest tank you’ll find at tier VI, and it doesn’t trade shots terribly well.

What it is, is a Type 62 with a flimsy sheet metal casemate and your choice of the 85 mm off the 62 or the 100 mm off the 59. That’s it; like most Chinese tanks the WZ doesn’t have a lot of bells and whistles.

Rolling out, the thing is reminiscent of the Light tank it was based off. It doesn’t turn too well standing still, it doesn’t accelerate very quickly, and it doesn’t like going uphill. But once you get it going, or you drive it downhill, it will gather speed and reach almost 50 in no time.

The armour is terrible, it really is. The only bounces you are going to get are off the gun mantlet, which isn’t very big to begin with. The rest of the tank will be overmatched by almost everyone; certainly the lower side armour. Front plate is 35 mm, which in theory keeps you safe from 105 mm and lower calibers, but you’ll only get like 100 mm of effective armour right before it goes to autobounce.

Your best bet, as always, is not getting hit.

The weaponry is solid. Already the stock gun works really well; it’s the same 85 mm you get on the 62, only this one fires two more shots per minute. Drop the adrenaline, and you’ll get a 3.3 second reload meaning over 3500 DPM for a little while.

Switching up to the 100 mm, the 280 alpha is more satisfying, but you are giving up a couple of hundred damage per minute, and a third of a second aimtime. You also get much better penetration, and better shell velocity, which is a worry on the 85; I miss shots at range with that all the time because the shell is so slow.

I get 47.1 degrees of traverse with all my mobility crew skills and improved controls, and once the crew get their heads screwed on right, the thing is quite nippy. But it’s not very agile at low speeds, and setting up shots can be tricky with the 5 degrees of gun depression.

A little over 50 games in, the grind is almost done.

And I considered unloading the tank when I get the new one, but I changed my mind, because it is a fun drive. I’m keeping it.

It’s not bad at all. You trade having a turret and any kind of useable armour for excellent mobility and firepower, and you can of course follow your team around and just farm off them. Easiest job in the world. But you also have the speed to try some cheeky manoeuvers, and you will sometimes get away with it.

The type 62 was my first Chinese tank, and I’ve had it for years and years. I can tell you the WZ-131G FT is not the same at all. But here’s the thing; it’s not just a Chinese SU-100 either, because it just doesn’t have the armour.

You can play the WZ-113G FT as a Light tank, provided there are no other Light tanks in the battle. It takes damage like a Light tank. Explodes like a Light tank. And sometimes, it can be just as sneaky as a Light tank.

Because of the weak armour profile, you simply cannot push too hard at first, and you don’t want to be trading damage. You also don’t want to be spotted, and you don’t want to be caught in a crossfire. If you are spotted when you peek out to take a shot, you will get hit in return.

So what you want to do, is play this thing meticulously. Pay special attention to your positioning, make sure you reset your camo properly, and keep track of who can get shots at you. You don’t have enough power to bully anyone, really, and so you need to be playing the supporting flanker role.

Still, the later in the game you find yourself, the more dangerous you become. Hold on to your hitpoints early game, and don’t put yourself in a position where people can rush you, because they will rush you, and you will eat every shot.

I played through the last three games, and am now the proud owner of a brand new T-34-2G FT.

So what’s the verdict? Was the WZ-131G FT worth it?

I have to say yes. I think so.

The Type T-34 may not be my favourite tank, but it is at least easy to play, and grinding out the WZ wasn’t all that difficult. Starting out, you’ll have no end of things to complain about, but once you get some modules and equipment on it, you’ll start moving less awkward, hitting more shots, and being more effective.

If all you want is a tier VI Tank Destroyer, there’s no special reason to go for this one, unless you are into Chinese tanks in particular. If you are, everything will feel familiar to you; indeed the tank is made up of parts of tanks you may already know, just in a different configuration.

And you will get one shotted by high alpha guns, modules will break all the time, and pretty much every single shot that hits you will go straight through. All that. Playing a flimsy casemate tank isn’t always easy.

But the thing certainly has potential. It’s reasonably agile, with excellent firepower, and as long as you keep track of your positioning and remember to reset your camo, you’ll do fine.

Me, I’m keeping it around. I had a good time grinding it, and there’s no real reason to get rid of it.

That may not sound like a very enthusiastic endorsement, and it’s not. If you are just starting out, I think you should get something with a little more armour to help cover your mistakes, and if your garage is full of Jagdpanzers and SU-100s already, the WZ may not add very much to your collection, because it’s not all that different from existing designs.

Likewise, if you think the WZ looks suspiciously like an SU-100, and you think that’s super boring, then I can tell you it’s not going to surprise you once you try it. No hidden secrets. No bells and whistles. Just a light tank chassis with a Medium tank gun on it.

All I can say is I had some fun driving it.

Considering Chinese TDs

Longing For Camp

By:

IrmaBecx

I am joking, of course. In my book, there’s nothing worse than camping, and if I’m completely honest, I don’t see the introduction of Chinese Tank Destroyers having a very positive impact on the game meta.

But let’s not get caught up in negativity.

Because tank philosophy isn’t about blaming others for your own mistakes, even if they are to blame; it’s about seeing possibilities. About reminding yourself to have some kind of approach to your tank driving; not just going out there blind and getting wrecked.

So. Your natural inclination will be to look at the Chinese TDs, and say they are copies of Russian TDs; end of story.

And that may be true. But it doesn’t really get us anywhere. If you look at the other two tech tree lines, the key to being successful is not in understanding how these tanks are similar to Russian tanks, but understanding the ways in which they differ.

Like, the WZ-111 1-4 is obviously not quite an IS-8. How do you drive that? Not quite like an IS-8? You have to admit that sounds like setting yourself up for failure.

In that spirit, and growing increasingly frustrated with waiting for them to actuallt drop, I had a look at the new TD branch on the excellent Blitz Hangar knowledge base, trying to keep an open mind about what to expect.

Tier VI:

So this is the type 59 gun on a Hype 62 chassis. The actual hype only manages 2000 DPM out of that, but this one gets like 2500. Firepower is excellent, but the thing has no armour. The front plate is 35 mm; that’ll get overmatched by a regular 75 mm gun.

But yeah, the thing does 45, has 23 horsepower per ton, and pushes 50 degrees of traverse maxed out. That’s not a TD, that’s a Light tank.

Expectations? I think it will be fun; bombing around trying to get to sneaky spots, and desperate brawling against big, slow opponents when all else fails. Just look out for those HE shells…

Tier VII:

This does look suspiciously like an SU-122-44, and it’s hard to argue otherwise. Maos Hammer has better penetration values and DPM, and it’s a lot more agile, but again the armour profile is absolutely terrible. That front plate may be angled, but it’s only 70 mm, and you will face 15 cm guns at tier VII.

The prospect? Again the agility and firepower looks interesting; even if it’s not a keeper, I think it will have a few good games in it. Fast tanks are always fun.

Tier VIII:

So this is the one I want to be excited about, it’s basically my favourite Chinese Heavy tank without a turret.

You would think, then, it would be able to play like a Heavy tank, but I don’t really see that happening. I’m not sure the armour profile is going to hold up.

You see, even if you use max gun depression, which is 6 degrees, and poke over a hill, you’re not going to get more than 250 mm of effective armour out of your upper front casemate, or out of the semi pike nose upper plate.

Side scraping is the same; the 80 mm sides would take a death star to overmatch, but outside of autobounce angles, again you won’t get more than 250 mm effective at best. That’s tier IX Medium tank pen.

2700 DPM sounds like a lot, but it’s not exceptional for a tier VIII TD. Around a ten second reload, in other words, meaning once your camo has reset, you’ll be reloaded.

So, you’re not really going to bully anyone same tier or higher with armour or firepower, and the tank isn’t all that fast. What you will want to do is corner fight, because the one way you can angle the armour beyond 250 mm of pen, is backing around a corner. That will put both the pike nose and casemate front somewhere between 3 and 500 millimeters before they go to autobounce.

My expectations then, are to struggle a bit with this one, but I also think it has potential. I want it to have potential, because it’s an interesting vehicle; perhaps that’s more truthful.

Tier IX:

Here’s where trying to see something different becomes really difficult, because this one is so obviously a tier IX ISU.

Even the stats look suspiciously similar, with some minor variations. There’s nothing much worth mentioning, except one detail: The Chinese WZ trades about one round per minute for an angled front plate that’s more than twice as thick as on the ISU.

So this means, if you just drive straight at someone, you’ll have at least 250 mm of effective frontal armour. Put some angles on that, and most people aren’t getting through; gun articulation allows you to peek a corner with like 300 mm of effective armour behind that gigant gun mantlet.

But yeah. Here’s where I start balking. Is this going to be fun?

Tier X:

Let’s look at the final offering first.

I mean, it’s hard to call it pretty. It’s a massive box with slanted sides and wheels on the bottom; it looks like a child drew it. If the WZ-120 1G FT is the final evolution of the Jagdpanther, then the WZ-113 G FT is perhaps the drunken nightmare iteration of the 10,5-packing Hetzer.

A monster, then? Or just a bigger ISU for your camping sessions?

Well, It does have that huge 230 mm front plate, that should be able to take a beating. But my other two tier X TDs weigh the same as the WZ, and they both do 50. The WZ does 38, and I guess they put a lower tier engine in it, because it’s not all that powerful.

You see me balking yet?

Comparing my beloved Foch (155) and Object 263 to this new offering, it not like the WZ doesn’t bring anything to the table. The firepower is a slight upgrade over the Foch, as is the front plate, although it’s not as thick as on the Yolo Wagon.

And so this is where I start to have misgivings. But looking at the last two tanks on offer, they do share a common theme, and again it’s not very different from the Russians, but different none the less. What you’ll be getting, is a turretless Heavy tank, in the same way the Chinese Mediums are heavy Medium tanks.

Okay, so there might be a point to these tanks. But is it enough for me to actually grind out a new tier X vehicle?

You think that all sounds weak? Maybe. I did say I have misgivings about the whole idea from the beginning.

But again, the Chinese vehicles aren’t copies of Russian tanks, they are variations. And they may not vary a lot, but then there isn’t anything wrong with Russian tanks to start with, so why would they? And I think we all know by now, it’s not as simple as the Chinese all being slightly worse. Have you aced your Type 59 yet?

I do think there is a certain charm to these cobbled together cold war beasts, because once in a while, the result happens to be quite extraordinary.

The Chinese TD line starts out with a Light tank TD, then a Medium TD, then a Heavy tank TD, and then two more creations, that are perhaps a childs dream of what a Chinese super-Heavy Tank Destroyer would look like. They look terrible. I mean, really. But they also look kind of silly, which is endearing. And I don’t want the WZ-113G FT to just be a copy of my Foch or 263, because where’s the fun in that?

I think the tier IX and X tanks will carve out a small niche for themselves, and we’ll see if they end up being successful or not. Either way, I don’t think we’ll be seeing them in the Twister Cup.

I honestly thought the Chiense TDs would have dropped by now. They said they would. I thought at least we’d see them by Chinese new year, which was almost two weeks ago.

Judging by the stats, there might well be a winner among the tanks on offer, but on the whole, the TD line doesn’t strike me as super exciting.

Taking a step back from looking at my own garage, in a broader sense, it’s hard to see the specific utility of the WZ-113G FT especially. I mean, it’s a 152 mm casemate TD that doesn’t go very fast but has massive frontal armour. Fine. The question is; what you would need one for?

My prediction is these tanks might be able to run with the Heavy tanks. I am hoping they can take a frontline engagement. And looking at my tier X collection, it would make sense to get another big gun with some armour around it, in the current meta.

The problem is, there is a much better proposition on the table already.

The Hillbilly Tenk.

If you are unaware, that’s the Object 268; you can tell it’s hillbilly from the log spoiler. The 268 may not have 230 mm of frontal armour, but it does almost everything else a little bit better than the WZ. The only reason I don’t have one, is I don’t want to drive the SU/ISU and the 704 to get it.

For me though, it’s a “yes”. I’m going to grind the WZ-113G FT. Not because I need it, or because I think it’s going to be great at some specific job, but because it looks so silly, and because it’s so monstrously expensive to grind. 350.000 XP they want for it.

These tanks all have pieces of them I really like. It’s like they were cobbled together from parts of my favourite Chinese tanks.

But I would be lying if I said I was super excited about them. I am curious. Expectant, even. And I really want to like them. The WZ-113G FT isn’t going to put TDs like the Foch (155), the Yolo Wagon, or the Obj 268 out of business; in fact, in some respects it’s decidedly weaker. I would very likely recommend you grind all three of those before you even think about grinding the Chinese TD line. If you don’t have them, I think it’s hard to see an actual reason to choose the Chinese option instead.

So should you grind them?

Probably not. That is to say, there are several better options out there for you to explore first.

Still, I could be wrong. People underestimated the Foches when they first appeared. The WZ TDs may all turn out to be absolute monsters.

Me, I’m not hoping for that. I’m just hoping they will be fun to drive, and my expectations aren’t very high.

After all this philosophising about what we can expect from Chinese TDs, the actual decision to grind them has nothing to do with reason, or even with utility. It’s all feeling.

I just want to drive that big, boxy, silly looking tank.

More Chinese Monsters: The WZ-120 1G FT!

Chinese Monster?

By:

IrmaBecx

So you guys know I’m a Foch-pervert.

You also know I grinded the Yolo Wagon because it was basically the only tank I would *really*, really miss if they took away my press account.

You may also know I still dream of getting the SU-122-44 from one of those magic boxes one day.

So.

I don’t think it’s going to surprise anyone I bought the WZ-120 “One Gangsta Fake Tank”, pretty much the *minute* it dropped.

I don’t like campy TDs.

I like Medium tanks.

And so you may have heard me use the expression “turretless Medium” before. I think if this concept seems alien to you, then you may not be looking to join the Chinese Tank Destroyer corps any time soon.

There will be other opportunities. If WG keep their scedule, we’ll see Chinese Tank Destroyers before new year’s; and they’re not all like this one. They’ll be huge SU/ISU copies with massive guns on them; well suited to the traditional “wait for the perfect shot” style of bush camping TD play.

Me, I don’t like that. I get bored waiting for the perfect shot; I want to be out there *looking* for the perfect shot; because the perfect shot to me is a full speed snap shot that is perfectly timed, and goes straight in through a weak point in otherwise seemingly impenetrable armour; not a 400 meter shell drop compensated sniper shot across the map from the sidelines.

And there is the case to be made I am doing it all wrong.

I always play to win. But the *reason* I play, is always to have a *good game*. That’s why I sometimes get really salty with campers, blockers, and trolls; they ruin the game for me. The game *experience*; I mean.

And when you sit at the back in a Tank Destroyer waiting to get shots, you are basically giving up your ability to influence the outcome directly; relying on the rest of your team to do the actual work; you are resigning yourself to the support role.

And when you do, it is of course not *your fault* if someone else fails to do their job properly:

“I am sitting here, loaded and ready. Why are you not herding the enemy tanks in front of me?”

That is of course a bit of a caricature, but if you’ve played more than six games of Blitz, you will have seen this exact complaint from TD campers. “Noob team”. “No spot”. “Delete game, plz”.

But is not a Medium tank a support vehicle as well? They certainly aren’t the top damage dealers anymore.

Absolutely. But the support they provide is of a totally different nature.

Medium tanks are characterised by *versatility*. The number one complaint about Medium tanks is always something to do with their lack of performance in certain areas; they don’t have enough armour, they don’t have enough speed, or they don’t have enough penetration, DPM, or gun handling.

Not only is this view of tank performance facile and formulaic; it is also *limiting*.

If you compare the WZ-120 1G FT to the SU-122-44, then the SU is going to be the better tank. People will then say “tier for tier”, or “in their tier”, or something to the effect that the reason the SU is the best tank, is that it’s a tier VII and not a tier VIII like the WZ.

So where does that comparison get us, exactly? What does it tell us that we didn’t already know? That playing tier VII isn’t as punishing? That more DPM is better than less, or that thick armour compared to tier average penetration is better than thin armour?

Remember; just because something *makes sense*; no matter how *clearly*; that doesn’t mean it’s very *meaningful*. “Less is more”, Mies Van der Rohe said (I believe). That is a *meaningful* statement. “Less armour is worse than more armour” is not a meaningful statement in the same way, even though it makes *perfect sense*; unlike Van der Rohe’s proposition, which requires some context and reflection.

Try this one:

“More speed is *sometimes* better than more armour”.

If you drive the IS-5, you will know the truth of this. That’s the fastest IS clone in the game, with IS-8 armour straight out of tier IX, and some of the best standard APCR rounds in the game.

But we are talking about Medium tanks. For all it’s bias and power, the IS-5 is just a faceless Russian automaton that can do Medium tank jobs better than most Mediums can. That’s all *bias*. Not proficiency.

What I mean is of course the life blood of the Leopards and the Black Dogs and the BatChats. Mobility. The Box of Death. Getting past the gun arch of a turretless tank, or outrunning the traverse. It’s a dangerous game; sometimes a split second mistake can ruin everything, but oh, man; I don’t want to drive tanks any other way.

I will run my hull down beast Kpz 70 straight into your IS-7 and try to parry huge shells with my gun mantlet. I will ram my little Black Dog straight into your fifty ton tier IX tank destroyer just to take your tracks off. I will go for the brawl as last man standing just because you tried to shoot at me.

You can see this in my stats, and that is where I think you can convincingly make the argument I am doing something wrong. After four years of playing, I am still basically a 50% winrate player.

Looking at the WZ-120 1G FT specifically, at the moment it has the highest average damage output of all my tier VIII tanks, ever, and also the lowest winrate.

Thirty seven percent.

Yeah, that’s not very good; I know.

But I mean it’s my own fault. I don’t have the slightest interest in winrate when I roll out; I am a CC, and so I like to try new things and push the limits of performance, so I will have something interesting to write about.

And this is a *Chinese* premium. I keep saying I never bought one I didn’t end up loving to bits, and I fully expect to drive a few thousand games in this one. I am not concerned in the slightest with sub-fifty game numbers; although it does of course *look* bad.

A few platoons with my Pro rock star friends should help a bit. Although I will of course then have to deal with their Pro rock star *matchmaking* as well.

Lucky I have Preferential Community Contributor matchmaking to cancel that out. It sort of pains me to feel I have to state that is a JOKE, people; I have the *exact* same matchmaking you do.

Except when Wargaming works their dark Voodoo magic on you, of course.

Cancracker Lives. Does it Matter?

Joking about randomness aside, the simple fact is the tank works. I don’t need an 85% winrate to tell you that.

It works exactly the way I thought it would, after hundreds of games in the Foches and Russian Yolo Wagon line Tank Destroyers.

You drive it at people. You angle the front plate. You traverse to try to keep up with circlers and brawlers. You make sure you have the right type of shell loaded. You do the old fire-angle-reverse, or get in people’s face. You look around so you don’t get circled. Reset camo. Hull down. None of this is rocket science type stuff.

And the tank has limitations. It doesn’t have a turret, and the side armour is pretty weak. Tier IX tanks and accurate Medium guns will punch straight through the front, roof, or lower plate, and knock out your crew members. If you are saving on consumables, running an extra medkit instead of adrenaline or Chinese nitrous is a good plan.

I regularly lose pretty much all my hitpoints, get flanked, caught in crossfire, and fail to bounce the last, crucial shot.

But that’s OK. It’s all within reason.

I understand, that if I stay back, work on using cover more, and don’t push forward so much, I would do better. Angling the armour and getting bounces works better at range. The long reload on the 122 mm weapon isn’t such a problem if you are at the back behind a rock and a bush.

There are all sorts of ways to make the tank more effective. Even straight up camping would get you pretty far.

But I don’t want “effective”; I want “dynamic”. The WZ-120 Fake Tank does 50. It has stellar traverse for a casemate vehicle. It has a very solid front plate that is basically idiot-proof in terms of usage, and a tier X 122 mm main armament straight off the tier IX Weazel Medium tank. I mean this thing could face tier X tanks easy. In fact, my friend Xeno said he wishes he could drive the tier VIII Chinese against Mauses and Bias sevens.

I would do that in a heartbeat.

Because that’s the kind of tank driver I am, and that’s why I bought the WZ-120 1 Gangsta Fake Tank immediately. I saw hours and hours of brawling tier IX Heavys and Medium tanks, chasing Light tanks, and flanking, flanking, flanking, while making a bit of credits on the side.

I am slightly shameful in admitting I had a few drinks on Friday, which turned into the perfect excuse to “accidentally” buy the new tier IX AMX 30 1:er Prototype. I can tell you I certainly wasn’t the *only* one who woke up on Saturday with a new, highly Elitist French high tier Medium tank in my garage. Expect a review on that as soon as I scrape together a new credit buffer; I spent my last two million on equipment, Croissants, and APCR…

Credit grinding, then, is on the agenda right now.

And all of a sudden I have a whole fleet of Chinese tier VIII Premium tanks, all of which I think are *great* drives, to do it with.

Plus of course the “overpowered” Hype 62 Light tank.

IrmaBecx says looks like Wargaming got me *again*.