Object 907 Evaluation and Soviet Mediums in general
By:
IrmaBecx
So you may have heard a new tank fell into my lap the other month, and it got me thinking about Premiums. I am saving up my gold hoping to get a good deal on a tier X tank, and the list isn’t all that long:
VK 90.01(P). AMX M4 mle. 54. And maybe the Object 907.
And of these three, the first two are pretty straightforward. A rear turreted German SuperHeavy with a properly German long gun, and a French hull down bruiser with the most powerful 130 mm in the game. But the third one? Note it says “maybe” in the above.
Let me try to explain why.
*
The Object 140 is my favourite tank in the game. Not my most driven. Not my most successful. My favourite. The one I am most proud of, and that makes me feel the most like myself when I’m driving it. We have a deeply emotional connection, my Object 140 and I.
And I wanted to like the Object 907. It’s arguably the most powerful Russian tier X Medium in that other game, and it’s one of those tanks I’ve been hoping would make the transition. But at the same time, it out-140s the Object 140 in two of the precise areas that make the Object 140 so good: mobility and camo rating.
But I mean, that’s OK. We want more tanks in the game, and sooner or later their capabilities will start to overlap. Also there are a few significant tradeoffs for these two advantages, the 907 has worse accuracy, worse DPM, worse armour, and it’s not as stable when firing on the move as the 140. But it does have one more degree of gun depression.
So it’s a similar tank. You trade a bit of armour and firepower for more speed and better camo. That sounds reasonable, no? And it kind of was right up my alley when I got to drive it in testing, but I just couldn’t seem to make real friends with it. Maybe my expectations were too high. Maybe I’m not clicking with the playstyle. Or maybe I’m just not playing to it’s strengths.
I want to like the Object 907, but I’m just not sure I do.
*
Reading through the stats, it’s pretty easy to see how the Object 907 differs from the 140 and the T-62A. We actually have four Russian Mediums a tier X now, and I think there’s room for at least two more: a rear turreted one and a 122 mm. Each of these tanks have their own flavour, and the 907 is certainly different enough to warrant it’s place in the game.
It’s just not my favourite. I will always like the 140 best no matter what happens, and I doubt very highly I’ll ever get a 62A. The T-22 Medium doesn’t interest me like it used to, and I don’t think I’d actually pay for it, but I wouldn’t kick it out of my garage.
What about the 907?
Well, maybe I wouldn’t mind having one. I don’t have anything against it. I’d rather have a 907 than a T-22, and now that I think about it, I would probably rather have a new Medium than a new Heavy, wouldn’t I? And if I did get a new Russian Medium, it would be this one, right?
Fast tanks are always fun, even when they’re difficult to play, and the 907 is the fastest Soviet Medium in the game, except of course for the T-54 Lightweight. I didn’t feel like I quite got the hang of it in testing, so it has things to teach me for sure.
This is how you talk yourself into dropping the gold on a new tank. I know it’s coming, and I’ve been saving up as I said. Maybe the 907 is the tank I’ve been saving up for? The more I think about it, the more sense it would make.
Fortunately, I don’t have to sit here and dream. I could just log in to my press account and kit out the loan vehicle, and then I’ll put it through it’s paces.
*
So here’s the thing. I started writing this back in december when I thought the 907 bundle was going to come out, but then I guess it got pushed forward, and so I pretty much forgot about it. I did drive a few games on the press account, but it’s hit and miss, you know?
So anyway, that means I’ve had plenty of time to consider the proposition of the Object 907, and the more I thought about it, the more sense it made to me. The Russian Light tanks are coming, and the natural predator of the Light tank is the Medium tank. Of course, if you’re going to take on the T-100LT in a Russian Medium, you’ll probably want to be in the 140 or the 62A because they actually have more DPM than the Light tank; the only thing the 907 brings to the table is gun depression and being a little more robust.
But yeah, I’ll be driving fast and light for the Motherland before long anyway, so why not mix it up with a little Medium tank gameplay? You can probably tell I’ve sold myself the tank already, can’t you?
Does that mean you should sit up and take note also?
No, not necessarily. What you should have done if you want a premium Soviet Medium at tier X is buy the T-22 Medium in the holiday auction. And if all you want is a fragile but mobile and hostile Russian Medium, then there are two very good options in the tech tree already, there’s no need to spend twenty thousand gold. And you know; the 907 is no T-22, it’s not going to become a hugely popular vehicle unless something drastic happens, and so you can probably expect prices to drop significantly with time.
For me though? I have almost all the tier X Mediums already; certainly all the ones that truly interest me, and so the Object 907 would round out my collection pretty nicely.
I mean, what else would I spend my gold on?
If you know Medium tanks, and Russian Mediums in particular already, there are a few things about the 907 that are going to disappoint you.
First of all it fires about a third of a second slower than the tech tree tanks; I’m sure you know that can be an eternity in a tight spot. Second, it easily has the worst armour of any of the Soviet Mediums, and all you have to make up for it is mobility and camo rating. It does have the best camo rating of any tier X Medium, but no one seems to think that’s a real asset.
It also has the worst accuracy of the bunch, and it’s the least stable when firing on the move. If you’re used to your Object 140 hitting weakspots doing full speed drivebys, then the 907 is going to feel like a real letdown. But at least they won’t see you coming, right?
So what you have is a fast and stealthy tank, but you’ve paid fairly dearly for it in terms or armour and firepower. Oh, and you go faster backwards than the other tanks, but again people don’t usually consider that an advantage so much as a curiosity.
Okay, but if I want a fast and stealthy tank from beyond the iron curtain, why wouldn’t I just grind out the Object 140?
There’s no good argument against that. You would just grind out the Object 140. But then some of the exact things that make you like the 140 you can get a bit more of in the 907, and if you understand the 140 playstyle that’s going to make you a better 907 driver too.
*
I’ll say one thing, the Object 907 certainly looks good. It’s a few more days until the bundle drops so I’ve logged into the press account to drive a few games and try to delude myself I’m not making a gigantic mistake even considering this tank.
First game out the red team doesn’t have any Mediums on Malinowka. I cap the base uncontested and then drive straight for their 183, which goes down in seconds. Then I drive straight into the herd to take out a low health tank and try to get them turned around so my team can blast them, but by then I don’t have a team anymore; they’ve already broken through and it’s just a matter of cleaning up.
This is the good news/bad news of Medium tanks these days. Sometimes having a Medium advantage means you can establish map control and push the reds into a corner. Other times it just means a Heavy tank disadvantage, and you’re already 7 on 6 so to speak when the match starts.
Next game we have a pro toon in a Vickers Light/VK 90 on the reds, and it’s that new map with the houses in the middle. I figure if we don’t go left towards where A cap usually is we’ll get slaughtered, but out other Medium calls right, and I sort of shrug my shoulders and roll with it. Our Light tank does go left, but bravely turns around to flee after spotting the entire herd in that corner.
Meanwhile we have found a Kranvagn Nidhögg behind a house, and even without adrenaline we are talking almost 7000 DPM being unleashed on the poor Swede; that’s almost three Kranvagns a minute, and consequently it’s down in around 20 seconds. Behind it is the VK 90, having expected us from the other side and now taking fire from the rear and trying to angle up against two Soviet Mediums simultaneously while we pepper it’s weakspots.
It’s a classic lesson in Medium tank superiority: work together on the flank and focus fire, hit the slow and dug in tanks from the back and sides, put them in a crossfire with your main force.
“IRMA PERKELE” someone shouts. I can only agree, it’s a hell of a game. I fail to pen two of my overpowered Russian HE rounds on a Grille XV, taking a shot full in the face to do it, but I actually bounce two dead certain kill shots on just a sliver of heath just before the cavalry arrives, and I manage to collect myself enough to hit the last shot on the Vickers Light for the win.
I’ve said before that the Medium tank nerf paradoxically made Medium tanks more important, because they still have capabilities that Heavy tanks and TDs simply don’t have. You can’t hide a Heavy tank the way you can an Object 140, and you can’t make it go as fast as a Leopard. In some situations those things are going to make all the difference
Back in the day, you would roll up on the centre hill on Malinowka and hide in a bush while you lit up the entire red herd of Heavy tanks trundling their way towards the windmill, and then watch the rounds come raining in from the rest of your team. That’s the sort of gameplay you dream about in the object 907, because it’s not a brawler, and it’s not a sniper, it’s just a regular Medium tank.
*
I’ve struggled to make this point before about the Object 140. The reason I say it’s better than the T-62A is that it’s better at being a Medium tank. People just don’t understand what I mean, they keep repeating the T-62A is better because it just is better. Never once have I heard a convincing argument why; I ask “explain to me how” and they say “it just is”.
And then I say the Object 140 outperforms the T-62 by a small margin in terms of average winrate, and it has for the longest time. That’s just because better players choose the Object 140 they say, it’s not because it’s a better tank.
You mean to tell me that the reason the T-62A has been buffed is that Wargaming are simply too dumb to realise only the very best quality players in the game ever drive the Object 140, and it should therefore be balanced accordingly? So they made the T-62A better by accident? Or they do understand only the absolute cream of the crop drive the 140, and therefore they have purposely made it much worse than the T-62A?
There has arguably been one buff. Note I say ”arguably”, and it’s all about bench racing. But then bench racing does explain all the strengths of the 140, just not how to actually use them. The Object 140 got AP rounds instead of APCR the same time the T-62A got seven degrees of gun depression, but retained the tier-leading shell velocity. That means that over distance, the 140 will normalise better than the 62A, and so in theory it should penetrate more often. But then the 62A has better accuracy, better penetration, and better aimtime, so…
Where does the 907 fit in to all this?
Well, it’s the fastest, most agile, and stealthiest of the three as I said, but I don’t think it’s the best. Ironically, the numbers seem to suggest otherwise. With by far the least amount of drivers, the 907 outperforms the T-22 Medium by one percent and the 140 by four percent. The 140 likewise outperforms the 62A by one percent. That’s about the size of it.
You can interpret this in several ways.
One, the 907 is the best Soviet Medium tank in the game.
Two, only the very, very top of the line and most excellent players drive the 907.
Three, the 907 is the fastest Soviet Medium, and speed is a very powerful advantage.
Four, the 907 is a rare tank, and the sample is way too small to draw any definite conclusions. It’s possible the sample is skewed in some manner, and that’s why we are seeing these competitive looking numbers: 58% plus winrate, 2250 average damage, and even a 40% survival rate.
Diving deeper into the numbers, as of update 8.5, the most OP Russian Medium is the T-22 with a relative winrate of plus one. That is followed by the 907 with plus one half, and then both tech tree tanks have around minus one half. If you don’t know what “relative winrate” is, it’s just the vehicle’s winrate compared to the winrate of the player who’s driving it. So if you’re a 55% player, you’ll average 56% in the T-22 Medium, but only 54.5% in the T-62A.
*
Whichever way you choose to look at it, there’s more to the Object 907 than meets the eye. On paper it looks like the weakest of the niche, but the numbers, although they should be viewed with caution, actually suggest it’s among the strongest.
I would be inclined towards interpretation number three: speed is a powerful advantage. But it’s also an advantage that’s difficult to take advantage of; no pun intended, and you all know that four letter word in the back of your mind. Points for both four letter words, as one is most often followed by the other.
If you are an incorrigible yolo-artist, then the Object 907 is exactly the kind of tank you want to be in. It looks flash; especially wearing the “Ruthless” legendary camo, it’s light and powerful, and it explodes nicely when hit by massive shells. But even if you are Pro, I think the 907 is going to be a pretty hard sell for the majority of players.
As if to underscore that point I get three disheartening losses in a row, and am about to have a fourth one on Canals. I go D with our AMX Corsica against a Vickers CR and a 121B. Our AMX is taken out almost immediately by a 183, and all of a sudden I am surrounded by four or five tanks, so I have to retreat towards the centre, hiding behind bridge and trying to both keep the reds spotted for my team and not get taken out.
In the end I manage to hold them off until they flank me, and then I retreat behind my team, going the long way around to try to take out the Vickers and claim the D cap, because they have two to our one. Failing to reset my camo I take a fatal shot trying to cap. It’s down to the wire, the 121B with a cap advantage is running away from a T57 Heavy, but gets spotted out in the open and our driver actually aims the shot.
This is kind of what you can expect; this type of either/or gameplay.
And I am warming up to the 907 a little, because it fights like a demon when cornered, it flies across the terrain like the howling wind, and I hate to say it, but yes: seven degrees if quite comfortable in a lot of situations. I would have taken six on this tank.
*
But is this simple vanity or is it actually building my collection? I’m sure you know I have a lot of tanks I don’t actually drive but like having around, or that I say I’m going to get around to some day.
You know, when I “Git Gud”.
The only selling point I can stand behind 100% is that just like the AMX 30 B, the Object 907 is a perfect vehicle to keep that dream alive in. Because you have to know what you’re dong when you drive it, you’re not going to get a lot of bounces, you can’t side scrape anything larger than a Light tank gun; indeed you can’t even sidescrape a Light tank gun, it’s just not a tank that gives you anything for free. And it’s fast but it’s not that fast, the E 50 M does 60 too and has the same nominal specific power.
And yet here I am wanting to drive it again, and I know that in a couple of days I am going to drop 20.000 gold on the plain jane version and hope to get a good deal on the “Ruthless” camo down the line so it’ll match my 140 “Terror”.
I could have dropped a large chunk of my gold on the LT-432, which would have made a certain amount of sense since the Russian Lights are coming. But I really think I’ll get more mileage out of a tier X tank, even one as fragile as this. You hear me making all these excuses for myself?
I bought the AMX 30 B last holiday season, and if I’m honest I haven’t driven it that much. I do drive it, but not as much as my WZ-111 5A, or even my new Object 260. And I think that’s fair enough, because it is the type of tank you kind of have to be in the mood for, and that mood does strike me from time to time. I’m expecting the 907 will be about the same, and that’s OK.
*
Tomorrow is the day. Unless something happens the bundle is going to drop, and I’ll be logged in and waiting for my prize.
Or will I? Driving five games just now I lose four of them, which hardly seems encouraging. I keep meeting red teams that plow straight through mine, and I’m not exactly being an asset except for a round of initial spotting.
The Object 140 and 907 were actually competing designs for replacing the T-54, both started in 1953. A 100 series number means Uralvagonzavod as you may know, and 900 series should mean Stalingrad Tractor Factory, but the designer is often listed as “Design Bureau No. 100”; I’m not sure if they are one of the same. Either way the 907 was cancelled due to it’s complexity, and while the 140 was actually built, it was abandoned too in 1958.
And being 5 wins and 9 losses so far today, I can kind of see why they never built the 907. Well, they built the hull and it did some tests around 1955, but they decided the whole thing was just too complicated. It is complicated to drive; there’s just so many things that can go wrong.
So far today I’ve been outtraded by T92 Light tanks, taken a max roll from a 183 straight through the side that wrecked all my modules, killed most of my crew, and set me on fire, and I’ve been chased down by almost avery kind of Medium tank you care to mention plus an AMX 50 B.
Why is this happening? I can tell you I am very grateful right now for having access to a press account so I can try to figure these things out. It might well have been I had gotten tired of the struggle by now and decided to spend my gold on something else, but curiously all the difficulties I’m having seem to only strengthen my resolve to buy the Object 907.
There are still a number of hours left before I have to decide.
Nothing teaches you about the failings of a vehicle like driving it on the night shift. The 907 is a tank people know is kind of a pushover in a 1 v 1, because the armour is pretty thin, and for the same reason whey will often throw a shell in your direction no matter which tank you think they should be shooting at, because a lot of higher caliber guns will simply overmatch in a lot of places.
I keep driving, pulling off a win by simply doing hull down work and focusing fire on the Middleburg hill. But then it’s back to losing by thousands, and having hit the 50 game mark on the loan vehicle, I am running a 42% winrate. You have to agree that’s not super impressive. A couple or more games doesn’t change a lot, it’s still below 50%.
I’m zoning out watching HisRoyalFatness showcase the 907, trying to summarize my impressions. You have to be looking for those hull down positions, because that’s the only way your armour is going to hold up. I actually switched to calibrated shells, because the DPM is low as it is, and so perhaps it’s better to make the shots actually count.
That’s about all I’ve got. Six pages now, and I feel like I’m back where I started.
*
Ten minutes ago I pressed the button. Just coming back from my first game out, and of course it was a disaster. I roll up on B cap and catch the Sheridan shell on my gun barrel, but it’s all downhill from there. Our other Medium is nowhere to be found, and they basically just drive straight past us. Without the centre on Canyon we quickly lose the match.
Next game I have the hill all to myself on Dead Rail with a Grille supporting, and I pump out over 3000 damage for a convincing win. It’s like Fatness said; sometimes the tank is really powerful, and others it’s a complete letdown, especially the main armament.
I’m missing the “Ruthless” legendary camo from the press account, I really am. And since there’s a more expensive bundle, they’re not going to try and sell it to me just yet. Not that I have the gold right now anyway. Still running the calibrated shells so I can get that 330 HEAT penetration, but I am a little worried about the DPM. We’ll see how I do.
Otherwise, I’m running the same setup as on other Mediums: improved assembly, engine accellerator, and high end consumables. I had the thought I might run some sort of protective kit since the 907 is pretty fragile, but I don’t really want to give up the double food and super fuel. Also thought about adrenaline instead of the turbo boost, but the strength of the 907 is speed, not firepower.
In the end it doesn’t matter. I take three more sound beatings and now I’m down to the same 20% winrate I started out with on the press account. But yea, I wanted to be a 907 owner, and now I am one. I knew it was going to be a bit of a struggle.
But when you keep getting killed early with low damage, then very clearly you are doing something wrong. I am I think playing to one strength but not to the other, and I’m not listening to my own advice. You know, the one about people throwing shells after you on the off chance? I’m clearly spending too much time out in the open and making bad trades, because if I didn’t I’d stay alive longer and do more damage.
More cautious gameplay, then. Let’s give that a go.
To amuse myself I try to get rated, and my plan to take it easy goes straight out the window. I manage to win 6 out of 10 with 1500 average damage, landing me at 3020 rating; or just over the gold league limit. I don’t think that’s all that bad for such a tricky drive, but I can tell you I had to work for it, and it didn’t feel like I won more than I lost.
Two more games ironically turn out to be one that’s completely hopeless, where everything goes wrong and everyone shoots at me; a convincing 5000 damage loss, and the other an absolutely amazing one where I spot B on Overlord and then sort of hang around there, capping A, poking shots at a big TD using my superior camo and being chased around by a Yoh tank, but using my mobility to outplay them, and after a while I realise it’s just the two of them left and the rest of my team are on their way.
I’ll tell you one thing. If anyone tries to tell you being able to go 25 km/h backwards is not a real asset, then feel free to snigger at them knowingly. Not a lot of these big, lumbering Heavys and TDs can keep up when you get in close to them.
What you want to watch out for are fast Heavys, and especially out on the flanks. They can chase you down, and they basically only have to tag you to do damage if you are running away from them. It’s better to run away beforehand and try to remain unspotted. The camo rating is good, you can tanke that to the bank.
But yea, the thing will give you gray hairs. It’s the epitome of the high risk/high reward tank. And I know that’s what’s going to keep me coming back to it; indeed what has been keeping me coming back to it these last few days on the press account. At it’s best, there is nothing like this tank in the game. At it’s worst, you’re wondering what it’s doing at tier X.
And somehow, that’s about what I wanted from it. I didn’t need another Soviet Medium. I knew it was going to be a tricky drive. And I wanted one anyway, because I want that high stakes gameplay. I want to either fail miserably or win triumphantly, and in that regard if nothing else the Object 907 delivers in spades.
I think it looks cool. I like the whole idea of it. It’s the first thing I want to drive when I log in to the game right now. Between the 260 and the 907 I think I’m turning seriously communist in my tank driving.
*
But I also think that’s quite enough rambling, it’s time to sum up.
This is the first time the Object 907 is being sold outside of crates, and it’s an expensive bundle. As it is I think you can expect to pay maybe 15.000 for one inside a year. I am seeing a few of them out there. That makes me happy, and it shows there are drivers out there who appreciate the things the 907 has to offer.
Since it’s so agile it brawls a lot better than I expected, and you are going to have to fight tooth and nail. It doesn’t have a reputation for being robust; people already know it’s the worst armoured of the Soviet Mediums, and they aren’t shy about chasing it down.
The way to deal with that is of course to not stray too far from your team. When you get pushed, you head straight for your teammates hoping they will want to shoot at your pursuers.
And I have gotten away by the skin of my teeth in a number of situations, I have bounced huge TD shells off the turret and upper plate, and sometimes I’ve even won the game.
But the 907 playstyle isn’t super easy to figure out. Spending the weekend with it I am starting to feel a little more confident, but I’m still dropping winrate. And really, if I can’t get my Object 140 to win, why would I be able to win in the 907? It’s definitely a demanding drive, and if you haven’t driven the other Soviet Medium tanks then I think you’re really going to struggle to make this one work.
Still, for some reason I’m not sorry I bought it. It’s a lovely tank, nothing else quite like it when it works, and I did have some fantastic games.
However. Unless you are an elitist tank degenerate like I am, and you’ve been jonesing for the 907 specifically for some time now, I think you’ll be quite safe to hold off a little while and wait for a better offer. ISurely the fewer tanks that are sold, the faster the price is going to drop?
But yea, if you want to ruin yourself on what is basically a tier X T-54 Lightweight minus the Light tank camo and moved up two tiers, I completely understand.
IrmaBecx says listen to your heart on this one.
IrmaBecx School of Tank Philosophy 